The Current Verdict Aug. 28th, 2008

Well, Nebulous, you're basically saying that we shouldn't make an MMO. Not because there won't be elves, but because we won't be creative with them.

That means that dwarves, vampires, werewolves, gnomes, elves, orcs, or any race wouldn't be creative. And the worst of all would be humans. They've been around since we, as humans, have been around.

There really is NOTHING that people can do without taking ideas from other people. I had the idea for dragon riders when I was ten. Eragon came out when I was thirteen, and I'd never read the Anne McCaffery books.

If you want some serious, hardcore proof that there is technically no originality in the world, take a look at this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tropes

So, we may include elves in the game, we may not. Once I can figure out how to do the freaking polls on DeviantArt, I'll do that. I'll say something like the top ten races will make it into the game.

All I'm saying, though, Nebulous, is that you shouldn't leave because a game has elves in it. If I felt the same way that you did about creativity in games, I wouldn't play any. I'd just read Lord of the Rings a lot.

I have a brainwave. Hope it helps.


EVERYONE should put a list of 5 races for fantasy and 5 for sci-fi. Whatever you like, be it elves, werewolves, aliens, something we've never heard of before. We can look at the lists and see which bits we can put into the game, and which races we wont. This way we have a clearer view on what everyone would like in the MMORPG. I doubt everyone will be happy with every race suggested, but I think if we want to stay as a team, we should accept this fact and do what we can. Im not being rude to anyone when Im saying this, Im just finding it hard to put what Im thinking into words, so I hope you understand.

Anyways, heres my list: ('tis different to the other)

Fantasy:
Human
Lupine
Vampire
Satyr
Drow

Sci-Fi:
Human
Human Hybrid
*Fictional Alien*
*Fictional Alien*
*Fictional Alien*


EDIT: Renown0, DA polls can only work for subscribers, as far as I know.

Indeed!

I approve of this.

I think it's a good idea not using the standard fantasy races of elves, dwarves, etc.

Renown0 wrote:Well, Nebulous, you're basically saying that we shouldn't make an MMO. Not because there won't be elves, but because we won't be creative with them.

That means that dwarves, vampires, werewolves, gnomes, elves, orcs, or any race wouldn't be creative. And the worst of all would be humans. They've been around since we, as humans, have been around.

There really is NOTHING that people can do without taking ideas from other people. I had the idea for dragon riders when I was ten. Eragon came out when I was thirteen, and I'd never read the Anne McCaffery books.

If you want some serious, hardcore proof that there is technically no originality in the world, take a look at this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tropes

So, we may include elves in the game, we may not. Once I can figure out how to do the freaking polls on DeviantArt, I'll do that. I'll say something like the top ten races will make it into the game.

All I'm saying, though, Nebulous, is that you shouldn't leave because a game has elves in it. If I felt the same way that you did about creativity in games, I wouldn't play any. I'd just read Lord of the Rings a lot.

Your misinterpreting what i said. 1.) i hate when people say there is no originality in the world or originality is dead, when almost every genre if not every genre of literature is based off the one single fact. REAL LIFE! Fantasy may have infinite boundaries but if you ever look it up, fantasy in definition is based off reality. Thus there are only so many things in real life that you can refer back to. Btw creating something that nobody has ever seen before isn't always originality. Why you ask? Because everything is based off of something. Every Great Poet, Every Great Writer, Every Great Scholar, Every Great Inventor, no matter what they created, it was based off something that already exits. So if you want to say that originality is dead. Then you need to rethink over the idea because if so it was never living in the first place. 2.) I singled out elves because they are apparent in more stories, books, famous pieces, and mmo's more then all the other races. To be honest I'd want a team that was creative enough to make there own races, and create attributes for each one, but hey I'm not expecting you guys to go beyond expectations. I opted to create the story for the mmo mainly so that when it came down to Races, Classes, Abilities, and enviroment i had a very strong say in each. I want what ever i do to come at a new angle and see things the way they arent' so commonly perceived. Taking a founding idea and making it ur own is basically the basis of creative writing. So if you guys want a game that gets a few glances, and people drop it be my guest. I'm in the gaming field, I've seen how hard it is to run everything, and I've spoken to people and met people who have done it themselves. 3.) I myself want this to be creative because gaming and mmo's especially are not about the founding ideas, or hard work, or even great ideas and people. Sometimes it comes down to marketing. Seeing what people want to see in games and then doing your best to find an even medium between what they want and what u want to do. If you honest believe that people want to see elves, and dwarves, and all those other popular fantasy creatures in every game then your more naive then i thought and that's being perfectly honest. If you as a person want your game to grow you'll see that the people who bring out things that people have never seen before get noticed. If you bring out something different then everyone else you will stand out no questions asked. Because there are hundreds of ideas everyday that may be awesome and great, but if nobody knows about it then who will play it? Who will even know to try it? If im going to put time and work into this i want to know that people will give my idea a shot. If it's dwarves and elves then from a logical prespective as a gamer. I'm gonna assume it's like every other game in the genre. I'm not asking you to create the greatest idea in the word, and honest i never said u couldn't use ideas that people had already set fourth. Do not take the popular ideas, use the ideas that aren't as popular and add your own imagination and creativity too them so they will be different and fresh. Nobody wants to see the same thing in a game, so give the people what they want. Give them something new.

Yeah, I totally see what you're saying. Nevertheless the popular things are well... popular. I think incorporating them and then adding a big twist would be kinda cool. Like, if elves were on the sci-fi end as an alien race or something. Or maybe aliens that are similar to elves.

Well, I've said before that IF we're going to use elves, we would be changing them in a way that benefits us in the same way you are saying. So, it appears that's what we're going to have to do to avoid pointless argument. Unless we still end up voting to take it out.

Let's just consider you correct, and move on.

So, I think Bladnoched had a great idea, which would be for us all to pick five races for each side and use the ones that appear most. Thanks, Blad.

Unfortunately, for races, I can't think of many original ones, so consider all of mine to end with a "?"

Fantasy:

Human
Elf variant
Dwarf (possibly variant)
Half-*insert monster/other humanoid name*
Fairy

Sci-Fi:

Human
Hybrid
*Alien race*
*Ditto*
*Ditto*

Sooo....just waiting for Maddy and Nebulous to put their lists...

okay uhm... =]

fantasy~
-ghost
-shapeshifter
-a cute little animal guy =]
-zombies!!!!!! >w< <333
-faery

sci fi~
-robot
-elf-like aliens
-another alien race
-another alien race
-yet another alien race

and of course I think humans go without saying.

Cheers Maddy now we're just waiting for Nebulous. I know they've been on here recently, checked the memberlist ;D

About half way done outlining abilities, traits, and general characteristics, but for the most part i could show you names of the races of both the fantasy world and the Sci-fi world

(Fantasy)- All Fantasy races compromise of both humanoid creatures, and creatures resembling beasts that share more human characteristics. I have the specifc abilities of each and 90% of the information, but if the idea isn't accepted then there would be no sense in actually mentioning the rest. I'll attach a few details to each, but for the most part I'm just leaving it all out until we come to a decision for the game.

Arcanin (Arc people)- Exist in only the Helion region of the world. (large expansive desert) have very dark tan skin and have heat resistant skin. Able to use Fists, spears, and other weapons used for a catalyst of there magic.
Haules (Wolf people)- Wolverine like creatures, that somewhat resembles werewulves in present day. This race doesn't utilize magic, but instead brute strength. Utilizing claws, and other beast tactics are adept close range, but suffer sever loses at a distance
Drakorean (Arid Nomads)- These creatures reside in the high mountains of Triques and Rietin. These creatures have the ability to glide because of there aerodynamic, feathers and skin. They are also adept magic users of Wind, and utilize various ranged weapons.

These are just the first 3 the fantasy races will have about 5 or 6 and the sci-fi races will have an equal or slightly higher number since it's more to draw upon. I have a plethora of ideas, but we've arguing able the overview of the game for days and have gotten damn near nowhere. So before i even really put my ideas on the board we need to have someone in charge of them as a whole.

Nice ideas Nebulous, paticularly like the sound of the Haules and Drakorean I can see you thought a lot about your choices ^_^
Now we need to make a few decisions o the stuff we've got

EDIT: We havent been arguing, just showing each other's ideas, unless you count the subject about the elves; but thats past now as we've got a whole range of ideas.

I like them all. Although the last one is my favorite.

I believe for the most part our Races are out on the table and we're starting to get an over view of what the game looks like pre-production wise. I introduced races, but i however did not introduce my classes which would probably help in finalizing any last thoughts or questions. I also opted to a new system that i haven't seen utilized to it's fullest extent in most rpg's, which is a Reincarnation system. I developed one in a lil of meh free time, and found that it indeed makes a new twist or obstacle for certain players. I will have it listed below. As far as the ideas for the main outline of the game, I'll leave that up to you guys and who ever else joins the team later down the line.

There named in order of what they become. Thus a Timber Wolf becomes a Mountain Wolf in 3rd job, etc.

Hauls- 2nd Job- Timber Wolf or Sabre Wolf- 3rd Job- Mountain Wolf or Werewulf- Reincarnation Job- Great White.

Arcanin- 2nd Job- Nomad or Wayfarer or Barren - 3rd Job- Marauder or Sage or Dusk Lord .

Drakorean- 2nd Job- Blade or Hunter or Breeze Chanter -3rd Job- Air Strider or Zephyr or Wind Waker.

Reincarnation- When a Race reaches a certain level it can Reincarnate with the help of another host body of the same race. Reincarnation generally occurs in beast races and is accessible when the beast reaches level 70. There are three basic requirements to Reincarnate and are as followed, You must be of level, You must use the aid of a Necromancer or a Divinist to complete the transaction, and you must find a Divine Vessel (aka the remains of another animal of that race of higher caliber) to Reincarnate into. During the Reincarnation process the spirit of the original creature is put into the remains of the vessel and thus reviving it's remains to it's early form. Thus when you Reincarnate you retain all of your skills and magic, but you must train the new body. (Thus you must work up your str, mag, def, hp, and things over again) There are also very many perks to Reincarnating as well. When you Reincarnate the body levels faster, thus you can regain levels more quickly then normal un-reincarnated players can. (When you Reincarnate u go back to lvl 1). Also when you level up your stats increase further then how much you would have gotten as the typical creature within the race. (Thus if you gain 3str and 50hp at level one as a nourmal creature. As a reincarnated creature you gain 4 str and 60 hp at level one)

Sounds like good ideas, but I was a little confused in certain parts; so here are some questions I have about the jobs and reincarnation:

* For every job/quest a player completes, does the class change?
* Will there be any perks for players who dont reincarnate, so they dont feel forced to do something they dont want?

Ok maybe i implied alot since i could write out the description like i wanted due to the restraints of the forum. I'll rewrite it in an easier format to answer Question 1.

1st-----2nd Job---3rd Job----Reincarnation Job
Arcanin-> Nomad-> Marauder-> None
Arcanin-> Wayfarer-> Sage -> None
Arcanin-> Barren -> Dusk Lord-> None

Haul-> Timber Wolf-> Mountain Wolf-> Great White
Haul -> Sabre Wolf -> WereWulf -> Great White

Drakorean-> Blade -> Air Strider -> None
Drakorean-> Hunter -> Zephyr -> None
Drakorean-> Breeze Chanter-> Wind Waker-> None

That should be easier to read for the most part. On to your second question. There are skills aquired after the Reincarnation level. For example if your a class that Reincarnates at lvl 70 there are still new skills after level 70 all the way to 100 or so. Thus the longer you wait to reincarnate the better actually, but there is nothing against the reincarnation. For the most part the new host body weilds more versatile abilities so it's in your best interest to Reincarnate, but not required. Some passive skills are only use able in your original body, while you gain different ones in your new body. Alot of the skills gained after level 70 are for the original body anyway. So thus you either gain new skills while staying the regular class or u gain new abilities, a new look, and new skills be reincarnating. In the end there just different but meant to be equal in a way.